In Episode 12 of the Being Human is Good For Business Podcast we talk to the President of International Brake Industries (IBI) Paul Johnson.
IBI is a global provider of brake hardware and has been an automotive aftermarket leader for 50 years. It’s based in Lima, Ohio with a global footprint that includes South America and the Asia Pacific region.
IBI President Paul Johnson
“Being a leader in the automotive industry is no different than any other,” says Paul. “People are people. Business is business. Successful companies, regardless of their industry, are going to succeed by how well they motivate and activate their people.”
That said, the automotive industry is going through dramatic changes and it’s becoming a lot more complicated than ever. Innovation is the key to continued success and Paul agrees that leaders play an important role in creating the right environment.
“IBI has been in place over 50 years now,” Paul explains. “And we're the leader in our segment, but frankly, IBI created the segment. And when you're the big fish in a small pond, you can only grow so much organically. It takes innovation to maintain a growth trajectory.”
Paul credits his team’s use of the Enneagram framework as an important factor in supporting new product development and innovation by creating connections beyond the “org chart.” He explains, “By going through the Enneagram process and learning more about ourselves as well as others, we vastly improved our working relationships. It doesn't fix everything but overall, your organization will run better, be more efficient and more effective. I think it will make everyone a little bit happier too.”
In this podcast Paul shares how increasing his self-awareness, and gaining a deeper understanding of his team members’ core motivations, has changed the way he leads. And, how his new knowledge of the Enneagram has boosted his personal growth, which has changed the way he lives.
Links to helpful resources and information about some of the tools and concepts mentioned in the show:
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Being Human Is Good for Business Podcast Episode 12
Paul Johnson: [00:00:00] No, we've got objectives. We have a bottom line; we’ve got to achieve. And so, I amped up, what I was trying to do to make it even bigger, right? Well, this must be the way I need to get attention. I'm going to, make things, actions even bigger and louder, and that was not motivational, right?
That that can be destructive. Right? You can reduce performance, not increase performance. It creates a lot more heat than light.
Voice Over Man: [00:00:31] Welcome to the Being Human is Good for Business podcast. In each episode, the leadership development experts at Trilogy Effect explore how the process of self-discovery unleashes potential in us all.
Now here's your host Sherrilynne Starkie.
Sherrilynne Starkie: [00:00:48] Hello, this is Sherrilynne Starkie. Welcome to the Being Human is Good for Business Podcast. Today I'm joined by leadership development experts, Heather Marasse, and Mary Beth Sawicki, who are partners at Trilogy Effect. And today we are welcoming as our guest, Paul Johnson, who is the President of International Brake Industries (IBI), the market leaders in brake kits for the automotive aftermarket for more than 50 years now.
Welcome to the show, Paul.
Paul Johnson: [00:01:18] Nice to meet you. Thank you.
Sherrilynne Starkie: [00:01:20] We're so excited to have you here, but I think before we get into the nitty-gritty of the conversation, can we start with you just telling us a little bit about yourself and your career background.
Paul Johnson: [00:01:30] Yeah, sure. Sherrilynne Again, thank you. It's nice to be here.
So yeah, I’ve been in the auto aftermarket here for about 20 years. But I, I guess I think back, I started as a, just kind of as a mechanical, a mechanical guy. I really grew up loving airplanes and cars. And so, I, became an aeronautical engineer, and worked for Boeing for a few years and enjoyed it very much.
But also had the interest in cars as well. So, after graduate school, I started with General Motors. It was two dream companies for the areas that I was interested in. And, during my time at General Motors, I had rotated into the automotive aftermarket at one point with responsibility for AC Delco and found that I really enjoyed that business.
I really liked the dynamics of the industry. I like the people in the industry, the channels and the products. And so, I stayed in the automotive aftermarket for, as I said, over 20 years.
Sherrilynne Starkie: [00:02:29] And can you tell us a little bit about your current role? What drew you to IBI?
Paul Johnson: [00:02:35] Well, first and foremost, I think it’s the people. The reality is I think we like working in places where we liked the people.
They approached me about coming to work there from where I was before, at a company called MTN. And I really liked the leadership. I thought we had a very good senior leadership with our CEO. And then also I was impressed by a couple of the other senior people we had. I think, very good finance leadership and good supply chain leadership.
And I think those were a couple of key areas as I started to learn more about IBI that were going to help it go from, I guess, good to great. It was already a great company, and to try to make it even better. I think there needed to be some key folks in place already. And I saw that, as I met the team and was excited to give it a try.
Sherrilynne Starkie: [00:03:22] I think that's a nice segue to talking about cultural things. You thought most of your career in the automotive sector, would you say that the automotive industry is different from other industries in terms of how you lead your teams.
Paul Johnson: [00:03:44] Sherrilynne said the short answer, I think is no. I don’t. I don’t think so. At the end of the day, I think people are people. Businesses is business. And, successful companies, I think regardless of the industry are going to succeed by how well they motivate and activate their people.
They're the key resource. Some companies, their industries are clearly, let's say more capital intensive than others, airplane manufacturing, automotive manufacturing are couple of those are the big bets in terms of capital. When they go in a certain direction.
But even then, it's still the people, right? Designing, building the tooling, the equipment, putting the investment in place to come up with whatever that great product is. So, I don't think automotive is a whole lot different. Now, if I look at automotive itself in the last, I'd say 10 years or so, I think automotive is going through dramatic changes within its own industry and becoming much more complicated than it was before.
But relative to industries across verticals, at the end of the day, I think it is still it's the fundamentals are the same. It's who can do the best with the people that they have.
Sherrilynne Starkie: [00:04:57] And you spoke a little bit about product development and, and innovation. So, what role do you think leadership can play in creating an environment for innovation or for driving an innovation product line?
Paul Johnson: [00:05:11] Yeah. Well, I do think that is key. As I said, it's the, it’s the people at any organization, whether it's a company or, or your church or whatever it is. It's the people that are going to make the difference in the organization. And the organizations that can attract the talent and extract the value from those people are going to be the ones that, I think, ultimately succeed.
So, leadership, I think is key. In order being able to make that happen. And when it comes to innovation, there aren't many companies that are able to kind of rest on their laurels and continue to do what they've done in the past for forever and expect some type of annuity.
It's not going to happen. IBI, I think is actually a great example of that. IBI has been in place over 50 years now. And we're the leader in our segment, but IBI created the segment! And so perhaps it's not a surprise that we are the leader and continue to be even after five decades. But the reality is that IBI, the organization was great at what it did, but it didn't really know what else to do.
And when you're the big fish, but in a small pond, which is our category of brake hardware, you can only grow so much. What do you do after that? And I think our CEO saw that when, he was looking for some, some new leadership to come in and maybe not take the blinders off, but at least expand the blinders to see what else is possible.
And I do think I was a key in helping IBI do that by realizing that there's more out there that we should challenge ourselves with. To innovate, to come up with more things to do. To get aggressive in the areas where we are because the reality was, we were starting to lose some share of wallet to lower cost overseas sources.
But also, to go into new areas. And so, in about three years, we went from essentially one major product line. We've added five new product lines as well. Because of the focus on innovation and, not changing the culture but let's say expanding the culture to realize that what we do is what we're doing is great.
And we can take that knowledge and capability and expanded into other areas. Things that I think would still have credibility with our customers. But will create new revenue, new profit source and opportunities for our company. In about three years, we've launched five new lines and they're contributing now about 10% of our top line.
And in just a couple of years, I expect them to continue to grow, and I don't expect us to stop. When it comes to innovation, we'll keep going.
Heather Marasse: [00:07:59] That's what happens in companies is when they start to get that innovation engine moving. If there's a continuous support for it, there's a momentum that takes place. And it makes it more fun to work there.
Paul Johnson: [00:08:18] Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think the team enjoys it when they realize you put together a new line and launch it and got some success. Well, let's do it again. In fact, let's do it a couple more times.
Sherrilynne Starkie: [00:08:30] Have you gone beyond brake kits, or is it a total innovation or new kinds of brake kits?
Paul Johnson: [00:08:37] We're focused on our core in brake hardware. Obviously, every year we're coming out with dozens of new applications, just to essentially to stay current with the car part. Every year when new vehicles come out, our engineers go in and evaluate every new vehicle to understand what brake hardware components are in the new vehicles.
And we launched new kits or new specific parts for our bulk customers or for our, our brake hardware customers. But that's part of what we do to stay current. We always want to have, essentially coverage for every vehicle out there. But in addition to that business, we've taken that knowledge and understanding of the aftermarket and are going to new product areas, but it's important for us that we stay relevant. I mean, our title is International Brake Industries. So, if we come up with a new exhaust system, we might have a little bit of trouble.
So, we do want to stay essentially ‘around the wheel’. The product lines we come out with are generally ones, which are, brake related, but we also want to be sure we don't compete with any of our customers.
We want to help our customers. We don't want to, start to compete with them and things that they're doing. So, we're trying to careful to find areas that, add value, but also are supportive, for our customers as opposed to challenging.
Mary Beth Sawicki: [00:10:00] I'm just struck by how you're talking about innovation, and I'm remembering the last time that we were together and how you wanted to introduce vulnerability.
And its link to innovation and, vulnerability, including uncertainty and risk and emotional exposure. And innovation includes all those things too. And say, you took some coaching from your daughter around vulnerability, and had this conversation with your team. So, I'm just curious about how that has been showing up and influencing what's going on at IBI.
Paul Johnson: [00:10:32] Well, thanks for bringing that up Mary Beth!
You're a hundred percent, right. You are right. And I must, I give credit to the, to the Trilogy team. And then also, to my daughter also for helping me understand this because, we're maybe jumping ahead a bit about typing and the Enneagram, but as going through that process, really, it was an eye opener for me, learning more about myself.
More than ever before I learned about how I operate and what motivates me, but also what scares me. What the fears are. And that's a real, eye-opener not just for yourself, but for the other people that you work with. When you go through that process to learn what motivates them, but also to gain some understanding of what they're protecting against or what they're afraid of.
So, in the case of my type, as an Enneagram 8, we don't want to be vulnerable. In fact, that's a sign of weakness. You'd never want to show that. And, I just assumed, up until going through the process with a Trilogy team that, well, that's just common sense and that everyone's that way.
And no, you learn, of course. No, that's not the case. Not everyone’s that way.
In fact, your hiding or protecting against vulnerability is keeping you from being the better leader that you could be. So, very Mary Beth, in the example you raised, I remember that that session.
One of our product lines that we were working on at the time was a product line called antilock brakes sensors, AVS. And we had been working on this product for quite a while. And in my, I guess, an old Type 8 fashion, I had set some rather aggressive timelines, that the team was trying to achieve.
And neither I, nor others on the team, wanted to express any type of vulnerability. The timelines were not achievable. We were not going to make it. And we weren't communicating well within the team about that very point. And it was at that session where we were putting stickies on the wall and it became apparent that we had a real issue around this product line in terms of launch.
Because of my own leadership style and then the concerns of the team, we weren't communicating what that roadblock was and that we needed to address it. But at that team meeting, we had a real breakthrough. First off, we identified, yes, we do have a timing issue here, but also, we all like the idea and agreed it’s a good thing to do! But we've had to adjust the timing and get some resources refocused. As simple as that sounds, that was kind of a breakthrough event. But it allowed us to get it out there and, I’m happy to say it's, it's one of the five.
Heather Marasse: [00:13:08] I remember the makeup of your team. But you’ve got different members on the team and some of them are also Type 8 like you. So, there would be a fear of, there’s the trying to achieve the unachievable at the same time, feeling very exposed because I know I can't get it done, But I don't want to admit it. Because that would look weak.
It just gets compounded when you have a mix of the different ego structures around the table. And until you let your guard down and certainly as the leader, if, unless you're willing to let your guard down, it's hard for any of the others too.
Paul Johnson: [00:13:50] That's exactly right Heather and example is a good one.
We do have a couple of Enneagram 8s, on the team. And I think we have benefited, first off understanding ourselves. Up until then, it was, this person reports to me. So, there's an org chart and there's a respect that comes along with an org chart, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's a connection.
And the reality is, we did butt heads at times, and probably neither of us understanding why. But by going through the Enneagram process and learning a little bit more about ourselves as well as others, both of us did a little bit more introspection. Our working relationship and our productivity have clearly has substantially improved. I liked the process, and that’s the biggest reason why I like the Trilogy Effect team.
I like them because they're nice people they're good to work with. And the concepts are very manageable. At the end of the day, there’s all sorts of personality typing exercises. Like many people I've been through quite a few, but this is one that pays off. It's nice to know if I'm an IST J or whatever Myers-Briggs says or whatever it is. But honestly, I can't remember that. And I sure as heck can't remember who are on my team.
But when you go through this kind of typing process starting at a macro level and start understanding a little bit more about personalities. What motivates? What fears us?
How do we try to stay above the line versus falling below the line? Those type of concepts, they, at least in my experience, they do pay off. They have allowed me, I think, to be a more productive leader. And I think all of us as a team, a better jelling. Because we can think about how someone might react or maybe knowing how someone's thinking.
I will adjust my message. Or maybe, shut up and listen more to what they're having to say. As a result, I think they're better. It doesn't fix everything, but when it comes to making your organization be run better, be more efficient, more effective. I think it makes everyone happy, a little bit happier.
It's the best of everything I've seen. It's the best. And it's what I like to use.
Sherrilynne Starkie: [00:16:15] Mary Beth, can I ask you to explain, for listeners that have never heard of the Enneagram. What, what is the Enneagram? And can you tell us a little bit about this very famous Enneagram 8 that we've been talking about?
Mary Beth Sawicki: [00:16:30] Of course. So, the Enneagram is a framework of nine distinct personality type. Each type has associated habits and patterns of thinking, feeling, acting. And what's key are the underlying motivations and beliefs underneath that. Which are often hidden from just our conscious awareness. And working with the Enneagram brings these, more conscious for us and we can see, what’s motivating us.
What's motivating the people that we're at work with and in life with. And so, it's helpful in a team situation, which Paul has spoken so beautifully about. Like the dynamics and the team and, understanding why maybe we butt heads. Understanding why, where the real synchronicities are and where there might be some friction points.
And really, it’s about bringing the unconscious to the conscious. And so, for our Type 8 leaders and people in our lives, are known as The Boss or The Challenger. It's a very big energy. You might be picking up on that with Paul. There's a courage and a boldness to the Type 8.
And what that can be masking, and Paul spoke so beautifully about this, is the fear of vulnerability that's underneath this. And for those of us who aren't Type 8s, this is not obvious. I look at the three of you, and the thought that there could be any fear, any protection of vulnerability is baffling to me. Because again, it's this big, bold, courageous leading the charge energy.
We're coming up on springtime Easter time now and stores are filled with those of chocolate covered marshmallow bunnies. And Type Eights are a bit like that. There's a harder outer shell and a nice squishy soft center. Which again, 8s to try to protect, but they have truly huge hearts, are very generous, very loving and have inner circles that they're protective of at home and in life. I'm very, very fond of our Type 8s.
Heather Marasse: [00:18:31] Often, what happens with the Type 8, I don't know, Paul, if you have this experience, but I know my inner landscape as a Type 8 is this. I see what needs to be done before I can put words to it. And so, it's frustrating sometimes when people don't want to come with me to where I want to go. What the hell what's going on?
It's just having to slow down enough to let the full intelligence of my body catch up. I can be more back in my heart and in my head to be able to empathize with the people I want to bring with me, and wherever they're at. It’s being able to be more articulate in my language and communication skills about what I see in finding out what they see.
Paul Johnson: [00:19:27] It does Heather actually, that it does. Before we'd gone through the Enneagram process with you and your team. when I first came on to IBI, I was that bull. Frustrated that things weren't moving faster. Trying to bring, some new thinking in a new direction. Before you go through a process and understand a little bit more about yourself, you just assume that how I'm communicating, and the urgency I'm trying to convey is what everyone feels. This is just business! We’ve got objectives! We have a bottom line! We've got to achieve!
And so, I amped up, what I was trying to do to make it even bigger. Well, this must be the way I need to get attention. I'm going to make things, actions even bigger and louder! That was not motivational, right? That that can be destructive. You can reduce performance, not increased performance.
It creates a lot more heat than light.
If you want to be constructive, you're going to have to dial that back some. Not too long after that, we went through the, through the process and learned a little bit more about it.
It became very tangible for me. I recognized some examples from my own career, not just at IBI, but even before. Areas where my type, it probably does help. I mean, the reality is I’ve been able to advance my career. I've gotten it right often. But there's plenty of times when, I could have done better.
And so, I do think that even in my time here at IBI in the time since working with the Trilogy Effect team, I do think my effectiveness has improved quite a bit.
Sherrilynne Starkie: [00:21:22] Paul tells us what, in your opinion, do you think makes a great leader?
Paul Johnson: [00:21:26] There are some elements that I suspect are most people probably view as the table stakes. Having a vision. Being able to set a strategy. Strong, moral ethics, and empathy. I think those are, those are clear, absolute. But, in my own experience, you need to be able to activate on that as well.
You've got to be able to turn it into something that can motivate a team and mobilize as well. The best leaders not only have that skillset, but at the end are just great storytellers.
They're, folks who can, who can once the strategy is set, they can, they can articulate that vision with humor, with stories, with engaging examples that motivate, an organization to go out and get something done.
One of my favorite leaders during my time at General Motors, I remember him saying that your value to the organization is directly proportional to your ability to, extract and activate the resources within it towards a productive direction. That’s if you've got a great vision, and you're able to motivate the team to execute.
So great storytelling. I think is part of leadership. And the thing that I have learned probably more recently in my own career, is that in addition to, the strategy and the storytelling, the activation, I do think that a, a challenging part of leadership is, is patience. Is being able to know when, you need to step in and take the reins.
When you do need to back off, and that's a hard one. It's part and parcel of going through the personality, typing and understanding more about yourself and your team. And I think it also has experience. Over time having enough battle scars to know, look back and say, well, I should've stepped in then. I survived, barely.
Now I know next time I’m going to step in, and in this case is I stepped in too much. I probably stepped on the team or I stopped some creativity before it could have blossomed into something more productive.
So, the patience element I think is, is a key part of leadership. It's a struggle, when you're in the, the higher positions in the company, the reality is, whoever the stakeholders are, they're expecting performance. They're expecting some type of results and accountability. And someone does need to take ownership of that.
There are timelines that you're trying to drive for but having patience to know when to allow the organization to come through, and let's say, it's a more measured pace, that’s a tough one to get. But it’s not always ‘pound on the table and demand’. Often it is let the organization breath here. Let them come through and come up with a better result.
Heather Marasse: [00:24:46] Yeah, that's a lifelong practice. Isn't it? That whole finding the patience and trying to determine whether to move in or stay back until it comes. Yeah, it does feel like breathing.
Sherrilynne Starkie: [00:25:03] We try to in every one of our podcasts, talk a little bit about how all the things that have happened in the last 12 months have impacted the way that you're leading. So yes, the pandemic, and yes, working from home, and the cultural changes that have been going on as well over the last 12 months such as the Black Lives Matter Movement. All these things that have come to the fore probably because of the pandemic.
Paul Johnson: [00:25:32] It's been, it seems trite to say now, the most challenging 12 months of our professional careers. Clearly mine as well. But it's been so powerful. I think for people on multiple levels. In our case, putting the social elements aside, just trying to keep business going. It’s been a huge, just a tremendous challenge. If my boss had come and said, “Paul develop a plan, so, your team can work a hundred percent remote if necessary.”
I suspect it would have taken at least six months, for us to come up with that plan. And then we would come back with some line like, it can't be done! And nevertheless, within 72 hours hundreds of our headquarters staff went to remote environments. I know we're not unique.
Nope. So many companies in the US and Canada had to do exactly that. It does show, when necessary, the organization can do an amazing thing. It's been challenging. It's harder to work projects forward when everyone's in a remote environment.
It's particularly a challenge for our new hires. When you bring new people on to help onboard them in a remote environment, because it's harder to understand the culture of the company when you're doing it remotely. It's there, but for those of us who've been there and understand it. We don't, we don't have that additional hurdle. Our new folks have had that additional hurdle.
When you look at the social awareness side, for us we’re not just trying to keep our business going. There is a heightened sense of awareness. One thing that we have done at our own company is create a team. The CIDE team, for Culture Inclusion, Diversity and Equality based in Lima.
We have a team in South Bend that are at our plant there as well. We have our sister company has a team, doing the similar work in Florida. And, the focus is on, well, what can we do in the communities in which we operate to just be sure that, we’re helpful in the community. But also, a little more insight internally, what are we doing ourselves?
Because that's the hardest part, right? We did it to examine ourselves when it's you and your culture, it's kind of hard to take a step back and look at that. So, we put in place this team that has, multiple functions, but also differently. Multiple ages and, diversity within our own organization.
To simply take a step back from a third-party perspective and, help us understand how we operate and things that we may be doing that have biases in them that we don't even understand. So, the team's been in place for a few months now. We've made some donations to some organizations in Lima, Ohio, where our headquarters is. And the team has made several recommendations that we're trying to implement internally as well as to help us with awareness.
Sherrilynne Starkie: [00:29:02] That's wonderful., Can you tell me what you've learned from working with Paul and his team?
Mary Beth Sawicki: [00:29:07] Oh my goodness. What landed probably most deeply for me was the work around innovation and risk, and Paul's willingness to be vulnerable. And model that for his team and create the safety for conversations that need to happen, and that are happening. So, it's that Enneagram Type 8 energy too, right? That courageous, I am going to risk this vulnerability. It's what we need as a team, as an organization.
And it's what we really need on a global scale as well. So, I think that is one of the things I was most left with after working with Paul and his team.
Sherrilynne Starkie: [00:29:54] So would you say that Paul, that learning about this, Enneagram framework and using this tool personally and with your leadership team, was it driving a bit of a cultural change across your organization, would you say that's true?
Paul Johnson: [00:30:12] Well, I mean, cultures are, are deep. Right? It's hard. It's something hard to change a culture. I probably wouldn't go so far as to say that we're, well maybe we're rubbing, sanding off some of the edges, I suppose that's possible to say, but I do think that, I mean, at the end of the day, it's the 50 plus year old company.
The they're the norms that I think are there, the expectations are set well. And the reality is I think that we’re, as we recruit people, those that do well in our organization probably are the ones that kind of culturally adapt, to what we have as opposed to coming in and changing it to something notable.
But I do think that the Enneagram process and the awareness that the Trilogy Effect team has brought to us has helped us perform better within that framework. Recognizing that okay, well, there’s, there's kind of a culture that we're operating within, which I think generally is healthy, but has some issues.
We can, by having a little bit more awareness of how we operate, how we interact, what motivates us what’s what scares us, allows us to fall below the line less often. Right? I know we still do. We do still have, times when we're probably more negative than we should be or things that, allow us, but bring us down there.
But by going through the Enneagram process and understanding what our triggers are, what are the things that are likely to set us off by just being aware of that even subconsciously or often? I think we can stay within our culture we can stay above the line. And trying to stay forward thinking and productive as opposed to, coming up with excuses and looking for people to blame and the stuff that just is going to will drag an organization down.
Heather Marasse: [00:32:02] That's, wonderful to hear, because something we've always said is, we're not fixers. We're not coming in to fix people. That's not it. We don’t think people are broken. There's an automatic tendency for all of us to think something's wrong here.
Something's wrong. It's probably me. And I don't want to look at that. So, it might be you. There's a lot of that reactivity. That's all below the line with fear, fight or flight stuff. And, if we try and resolve things from that place, it only creates more of it. Instead of coming back to, we’re all just people here.
It's what you said right at the start of the podcast. We're all just human beings. We're all just trying to do our best. We all want to make a difference with our lives. And some things aren't working the way we want them to. So how about just shining the light on what's going on here without blame or judgment? Let’s see where we can raise our consciousness a little bit to take a more considered and thoughtful approach.
And it can, sometimes it's easier. It frees up energy instead of taking more.
Sherrilynne Starkie: [00:33:24] Thank you to IBI President Paul Johnson and to you Heather. And to you Mary Beth from Trilogy Effect for joining me on the show today and thank you to all our listeners. We love you. Please make sure you never miss an episode by subscribing to our podcast.
Please also leave a rating or review. If you can and recommend us to your friends and to anyone, who wants to be a leader or who is a leader and wants to improve, raise their game and be the best leader that they can ever. Be on your host Sherrilynne Starkie. And this is the Being Human is Good for Business podcast.