Have you ever put your success down to a lucky break? Or it’s just because you know people in high places? Or even, somebody somewhere made a mistake that’s landed you with a new opportunity? If so, you may be suffering from Imposter Syndrome. It’s that niggling feeling of inadequacy or self doubt you get when you feel you might be out of your depth, despite other people having confidence in you.
It’s a common problem. The International Journal of Behavioral Science says that 70% of people experience it at some point in their lives.
In a recent live show on LinkedIn, the leadership experts at Trilogy Effect sat down to discuss what’s driving this trend and provide some practical tips and advice for people with Imposter Syndrome.
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Mary Beth Sawicki explains, “It is common, and honestly, I'd be surprised if the number wasn't higher than 70 per cent. Given today's fast-paced environment and the ever-changing landscape that we're all navigating, it's hard not to feel self doubt or uncertainty about what you’ve been tasked with. Yet, when we do a 360-review exercise, for example, most of our clients see that their peers tend to see them as more competent, more effective than they see themselves.”
Heather Marasse says, “Feeling like an imposter isn’t necessarily always a bad thing. It can be a clue that you’re growing as a business leader. As soon as we move beyond our comfort zone, there is a part of us, our ego, that wants to pull us back and have us continue running old patterns, because that has been our success formula throughout our forming years. Getting beyond this can feel awkward but it’s important to step beyond our usual patterns to continue to develop our leadership skills.”
Wendy Appel advises, “If you are feeling like an imposter because you’ve taken on something new, just remember that this is your growing edge and it’s normal and natural. Think about these feelings as an opportunity to grow. You are embarking on something new, and nobody starts out being perfect at something. You’ll grow into your new role.”
In this audio recording of the Live show, you’ll learn about:
What Imposter Syndrome is and how to recognize it in you.
How to manage your feelings to make the most of feeling like an imposter.
How knowing your Enneagram type will help you navigate your way through it.
Resources:
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Machine Generated Transcript
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Being Human is Good For Business Episode 32
[00:00:00] Sherrilynne Starkie: Hi everybody. Welcome. This takes, this is the Being Human Is Good For Business podcast, and we are live right here on LinkedIn, on your hosts, Sherrilynne Starkie and joining me today are the leadership development experts from Trilogy Effect
We've got Heather Marasse, Wendy Appel and Mary Beth Sawicki. Welcome everyone.
[00:00:25] Heather Marasse: Thank you. And
[00:00:26] Sherrilynne Starkie: today we are here to talk about imposter syndrome. So have you ever done something and think that you were successful because you got a lucky break or maybe it's because somebody in high places or maybe even you think maybe somebody out there and made a mistake and it ended up with you getting a lucky opportunity that you didn't really deserve.
Well, if you answer yes to any of these questions, you might be suffering from imposter syndrome, it's that niggling feeling of, of inadequacy or self doubt. You feel that you might be out of your depth, despite other people saying, good on you. And with that confidence in you, it's a common problem.
The International Journal of Behavior Science says it's 70% of people experience it at some point in their lives. I know I certainly have.
[00:01:12] Wendy Appel: I kind of feel it right now.
Yeah. It's amazing how often it shows up.
[00:01:19] Sherrilynne Starkie: Well, let's get into it. Just how common is imposter syndrome? So it's,
[00:01:24] Mary Beth Sawicki: it's very, very common Sherrilynne, as you mentioned, more than 70% have experienced it. And honestly, I'd be surprised if the number wasn't higher, just given today's fast paced environment and the ever changing landscape that we're all navigating.
It's hard not to feel self doubt or uncertainty or, that you're not quite up to the task maybe that you have been tasked with. So, that says. When we do things like a 360 profile, for example, Leadership Circle Profile, we'll find with our clients that their peers tend to see them as more competent, more effective than they see themselves.
And so every once in a while, we'll run into the opposite, but not very often. It's. That's I would say that that's the exception. So yeah, it's, it's a fairly common phenomenon and actually prefer that word to syndrome syndrome. Pathologizes this common experience that we all have a bit. So I'm trying to train myself to say imposter phenomenon versus imposter syndrome, but, it's yeah, it shows up a lot with when there's a, when we're stretching ourselves.
In our career, when we're making a shift from, an individual contributor to management, for example, it can even show up in our personal lives. When you go from, a single person to, to a parent, for example, let's say, oh my gosh, am I up to this task? So it's everywhere. It's really common.
I actually just realized, sorry. I said, I referred to parenting as a task. Oh,
[00:03:00] Heather Marasse: it includes tasks. I am one, it includes plenty of tasks. It's not exclusively that, but some of them consider
[00:03:07] Wendy Appel: accurate
[00:03:11] Heather Marasse: career.
[00:03:13] Sherrilynne Starkie: Yeah. But it matter what realm we're talking about. A lot of people are kind of like faking it until they make
[00:03:19] Mary Beth Sawicki: it right. Thank you. That's the point I was trying to make.
[00:03:23] Sherrilynne Starkie: Exactly. So, do women suffer from it more often than men? Because like when, when I'm talking to my friends and my professional stuff, I hear, I guess I probably have more, the PR industry is more female dominated, so I do tend to have more female associates, but I hear it more about it more often from women than I do from men.
[00:03:44] Wendy Appel: Yeah. I don't have any data to support that. I have probably equal distribution of, coaching clients who are men and women. And I hear it from both. Especially when. We start comparing ourselves to others. We're never going to measure up, or I was going to find somebody who we think is smarter, more capable, more experienced.
And every time we move into comparison, we can start feeling, this imposter, what did you call it? Not syndrome, Marybeth phenomenon, phenomenon. We might start feeling like an imposter. And so I think that, when we're trying to stretch into a new position, We're always going to feel that kind of insecurity we're going to feel insecure.
So I have clients for transcends, a client could be an engineer in an, managing a team of engineers and not have a degree in that. And that can really drum up a whole bunch of insecurity. Like who am I? Who am I to be doing this? And so, and then, and then what happens as a result of that is you can either overcompensate.
And try to act like, more than you do be a know it all not take input because you feel like you're trying to prove yourself, or you can be second guessing yourself, not taking action when you should be deferring a lot, not being willing to make decisions so it can show up in both ways. And I, back to your question, I do see that for both men and women, Maybe the overconfident piece may show up more in men.
Okay.
[00:05:28] Sherrilynne Starkie: Yeah. And women tend to do the other side where they,
[00:05:32] Wendy Appel: well, if you're feeling really insecure, you can show up at, okay, I'm feeling, it's the truth. Now I need to act really overconfident. And, and that can really bite you in the butt. .
[00:05:44] Sherrilynne Starkie: Yes, especially if you are leading a team of specialists that, have a deeper understanding of things, then, then you might have on the technical part, I could understand that. I
[00:05:55] Mary Beth Sawicki: just want to add something to what Wendy was sharing about comparison. There's this great expression about comparison being the thief of joy.
And I think that comparison can also be the thief of self-worth. What we believe about ourselves, because there's so much access to. Today's world in social media, digital technology. It is so easy to just see these carefully curated images that are out there and feel less than feel, not measure up.
And, it can lead into this imposter phenomenon. So comparison, I think there's, rich territory to kind of mind there and maybe avoid it as much as possible. Avoid comparing yourself. It's so
[00:06:35] Sherrilynne Starkie: hard, not,
[00:06:36] Wendy Appel: Yeah. If you don't cook, when you do compare yourself, you're robbing, you're robbing yourself of expressing your own unique gifts because we are
[00:06:45] Heather Marasse: in our own way.
[00:06:46] Wendy Appel: We are all unique expressions of humans in the world and comparing, diminishes your own unique expression and your own unique way of leading and doing your work in the world. So, so you really, robbing others and yourself of this. Sorry,
[00:07:10] Sherrilynne Starkie: I know you, it's such a lovely thought what you said. And it's hard to remember when you're dealing with life and you're making decisions and you're running a business, you're running a team, these kinds of things.
It's good to have somebody like you in your corner to remind you of these very important. Matter the facts of life, really very important facts of life.
[00:07:32] Wendy Appel: Well, I, I wanna, I don't even want to take credit for, Angela Sarian, who was, a teacher of mine for many years. And she has to say in her own way, like we're all unique medicine in this world.
We're all unique. Bring our own unique healing into the world. And nobody else has our same Iris. Nobody else has their same tone of voice. And nobody else has our same fingers. We all bring that uniqueness into the world and it's up to us to bring that forward.
[00:08:03] Sherrilynne Starkie: So is imposter syndrome always a bad thing then?
[00:08:07] Heather Marasse: Not necessarily. I think we can relate to it as a bad thing, because there are some feelings and inner sensations that accompany it. . Which aren't necessarily pleasant. For me, it's kind of, my nervous system gets a little bit wonky and I'm upset when I'm feeling like I'm not up to something.
Which undermines my confidence. And I see this in our clients all the time when they're able to have some private and safe conversations with us, it's there for everybody. And it's usually a clue that we're stretching. As soon as we move beyond our comfort zone, there is a part of us that it's called our ego, that wants to pull us back and have us continue running old patterns, because that has been our success formula throughout our forming years.
And like it or not, it'll show up over and over again throughout our life. And when we step outside of the pattern, It will feel awkward and uncomfortable. And I think Brene Brown says it very well be stay awkward, strong, and brave. That's really, it takes bravery and courage to stay with these uncomfortable feelings and inner sensations.
And still stand our ground because that's an indication we're starting to realize untapped potential in us, as Wendy has said, we all bring unique gifts into the world, but they don't get tapped into if we're just running our patterns. It limits how much of us gets expressed. So imposter phenomenon, can actually be a clue that we are growing and progressing.
So you want to notice it, but don't get identified with it
[00:10:04] Sherrilynne Starkie: or afraid of it. Embrace it.
[00:10:07] Heather Marasse: Yeah. Be friended
[00:10:11] Sherrilynne Starkie: advice. So how do you do that though? How do you be friended when you're, kind of afraid and full of self doubt and tentative, it's almost like jumping off a cliff, right? You just gotta have faith.
You're gonna hit the water.
[00:10:26] Heather Marasse: It can feel that way. And there's a difference. We do make a distinction between getting into. Getting out of your comfort zone and then moving into stress because nobody really develops if they're too far out and I want to make that point clear. That's not why you don't throw people into the deep end that, throw yourself into the deep end.
That would be foolish. So there is kind of this dynamic tension that we all learn as we, feel that syndrome or that, sorry, phenomenon. Coming up and there's an opportunity there to kind of titrate it often, it might be with a trusted colleague to have a conversation about chase. I got this meeting coming up and I'm a little freaked out about it and just having some opportunity for connecting and regrounding regrouping.
Yeah. That would be one. I think, sorry, that
[00:11:24] Mary Beth Sawicki: opportunity, I think to be mirrored by someone who sees you and maybe more accurately than you see yourself, just speaking for myself, I know, my inner monologue, isn't always so pleasant, like it just, the inner critic can come online and I can see more of the gap between what I achieved and what I wanted to achieve.
And I can turn to Heather or Wendy or. My, someone I've worked with as a coach and just get some reflections back from someone else who again, might see me a little bit more clearly than I see myself in the
[00:11:57] Sherrilynne Starkie: moment. Yeah. That's something I've heard. You mentioned before Wendy, that it takes two to no one.
[00:12:04] Wendy Appel: It really does. We don't often see ourselves clearly we're in our own skin. We don't know the impact that we have on others unless they have. For better, for worse, we don't, we don't know the ripple effect that we're making. And so, I do my best to remember, to tell my friends and colleagues, and people in my life, the difference they're making for me, because I know that's such a gift to give someone, because we don't, we don't know, we can just go through life and never know that we are making a difference.
[00:12:37] Heather Marasse: That's often what we see in people, particularly I'm noticing at the end of their careers, as COVID has really brought this to the service. And the great let's call it the great awakening, the great resignation, but people have realized that they maybe want to change. Paths a bit. And what holds some people back from making a move is they don't feel like they're known or actually it might cause them to make a move because they don't feel known.
So either way that lack of mirroring how's it cost it's very real,
[00:13:15] Sherrilynne Starkie: so, well, I kind of got two questions on my mind about this as a more about managing. Managing the feelings that you get , when you're in this kind of imposter frame of mind. And also let, let, let, let's talk a little bit about that, about how can you manage it?
Like, what are some practical tips to managing your feelings and, and being brave enough to take that step. And then also, and then after that, let's talk about if you're managing. Someone said a member of your team is experiencing imposter syndrome. Maybe we could have some tips on, how to help manage them through it.
[00:13:54] Heather Marasse: Well, one way. Actually the way I would say without sounding too, too much like a terminal pronouncement there, but it really, really requires self-awareness is to become familiar with that inner gremlin, if you want. Lurks on the edges when we start to get uncomfortable. And when we're stepping out a bit and one of the tools we use that is so helpful is the Enneagram, because it lays out nine, very familiar and recognizable patterns, that we develop around coping in life.
And the more we can see the pattern that runs us when we start feeling scared or uncertain. The easier it is for us to be friended and not be gripped by it. So that would be a big start
[00:14:53] Sherrilynne Starkie: and make other choices. Yeah. Running your pattern. Yes. Yes. I understand.
[00:14:59] Heather Marasse: And sometimes it's the opposite. If you've got nine strategies, one of them, for example, would be, my way to succeed is to achieve, achieve, achieve.
You might try stepping back and letting others achieve and notice whether or not you're still successful. So it's kind of like challenging yourself. Of course, I would say that given that that's my pattern, but to do the opposite of what feels like you need to do to survive.
[00:15:28] Sherrilynne Starkie: Good advice. And then if you're, if you're managing or, or, or coaching somebody or a member of your team that you feel that they're not really, they're struggling, I guess, in a new role or something like that.
What, what advice would you give to the manager to help, support their manager, their manager, through the periods of change?
[00:15:52] Wendy Appel: Well certainly having a coach can help someone because sometimes the manager doesn't have the time, or sometimes they're not as skilled as, to be able to be a guide or a support or a mentor for that person. So to really. I give them that kind of support coaching for, I think, as Heather expressed self-awareness, what the coach could bring in.
And, we use the Leadership Circle 360, which I find super helpful because then it will get that person insight into how people are experiencing them, in a, in a really wonderful, and fundamental way. And. And they can see how their patterns are showing. Whether it's somebody that they report to, they are peers with or that to their direct reports.
And so it gives a lot of, mirroring and insight in a particular point in time. And then they can work with that. So, both tools we found extremely helpful to support people as they're growing into a new position. And then to just remember that if you are a person who's feeling imposter syndrome and you were, feeling like an imposter and you've just, taken on a new role and, to re, to just remember that this is your growing edge and it's normal and it's natural.
So normalize it for yourself. And as you think about it, it's an opportunity to grow. We have to go back to beginners. How did we learn to crawl? How did we learn to, walk? How did we learn to do sports? How do we continue to get better at a, at a sport or a skill we have to practice?
And it's often awkward and it's often uncomfortable and we often feel not good about it. Especially as we get older as a child, they're like, wow, when they fall, So was right. But when we get older, we're like, who's looking who saw that, I'm trying to look good and we get really attached to how we're appearing and how others see us, but to just be able to laugh at yourself when you stumble and to be able to make repairs with others, if you say, or do something that causes a problem or harm, you can always go back and repair, but to give yourself a lot of what we would say, space and grace. .
As you are embarking on something new because nobody does it perfectly. Nobody ever does it perfectly one we're taking on our growth.
[00:18:25] Sherrilynne Starkie: Yeah. Yeah. So then it's hard to remember that when you're in the moment, but it is, put a post-it note on your desk that says you're okay.
[00:18:36] Wendy Appel: You're okay. I mean, we go back to that.
Beginner's mind of being like a child,.
[00:18:41] Heather Marasse: Humor helps do, it really does. And it's a great, reset button. You can, if you're doing a big presentation for the first time, and it's your first time in front of the executive team acknowledging. Let them know. Thanks. I hope, this goes well, it's my first time just, it humanizes everything.
It, endears people and reminds us all that. We're all just human and being human is good for all of us. And it's good for business.
[00:19:15] Sherrilynne Starkie: I think that's a great point to end on. Did anyone have anything else they want to.
[00:19:20] Heather Marasse: I was just going to, just to Heather, because
[00:19:22] Wendy Appel: Heather is the best at what we call telling one on herself.
So we'll be in front of the room with clients and Heather will just tell something about something she did that made a mess or what,
[00:19:35] Heather Marasse: Whatever, lots of material.
[00:19:39] Wendy Appel: And it's just, it's one of Heather's most endearing qualities and it feels like the opposite of what you should be doing. You want to be up in front of the room and looking good and whatever, and she does that and it just, everybody relaxes.
And so it's always sort of that doing the opposite of what you think she should be doing and that kind of search circumstance, and it really connects you to others
[00:20:02] Heather Marasse: so
[00:20:03] Mary Beth Sawicki: beautifully. Yeah. Highly recommended
[00:20:06] Sherrilynne Starkie: it's the vulnerability, right?
[00:20:08] Wendy Appel: Absolutely.
[00:20:10] Heather Marasse: Yeah. Sometimes it's okay to be, that's what I've had to learn.
It's okay. To be scared. It's okay to be vulnerable. And it's not, yeah, there's no shame in it.
[00:20:20] Sherrilynne Starkie: It's a lesson I struggle with that's for sure.
[00:20:25] Heather Marasse: We all do at least 70% of the people
[00:20:30] Wendy Appel: that
[00:20:30] Heather Marasse: numbers lower to Mary
[00:20:32] Wendy Appel: Beth's point.
[00:20:34] Sherrilynne Starkie: All right. Thanks so much for joining me here. Live on LinkedIn today. And thanks for sharing all these practical leadership tips.
And if you like what you heard today, and, you want new and fresh ideas, please subscribe to our podcast. Being Human is Good for Business. You can get. On any of the platforms, any of the podcast networks that you like to use and tell your friends about the show too and share it and your social media so that we can spread it.
Spread the word on your host, Sherrilynne Starkie and thank you for joining us today. Bye everybody. Thanks everyone.